In games with inventory slot systems (e.g. Mausritter, ShadowDark), it seems that the decision of how many slots are allocated to consumables is rather important. Do you have a rule of thumb for how many slots would be occupied by abstracted supply?
Personally I avoid rolling supplies into slot based inventory, it feels like those should be about interesting gear choices. That said… a rule of a slot per 2 levels of the supply die could work!
Perfect. Baseline at zero,which favors a single PC in solo play, to a ratio (like 1:2) for greater challenge.
Getting the perspective of a rule's designer on how it might interact with related rules is excellent for understanding the intent of the rules.
I don't want to feel panic about how rules are supposed to relate. I'd rather feel the panic of my PC as he recognizes an inventory crisis in the face of adversity.
I’ve used a similar system but a max roll never increased the die. Players could only increase the die via “resupplying” as you put it. I do have one question, is there a random table for the supply incidents? The way you describe them make it seem like there is but I didn’t see one
You can always cook up a random table for supply incidents for sure! In this case I've not included one because a) you can do the whole 'this is what caused it to run out' -> that's what run out approach, which is my current preference or b) it may make sense for you to tailor the table to whatever system/scenario you are running!
This looks very similar to how Forbidden Lands is handling resources. However in FL you only decrease a resource die, when you roll a 1 or 2. They are also limited from d6 to d12. What made you decide to have always a 50% chance of decreasing the die?
I much prefer there being a more active resource pressure on the players, it makes things more dynamic. So having the 50% chance of decrease means we are experiencing shifts much more often instead of being occasional then slowly getting more regularly. Instead, the die shrinking is increasing the chances of a supply incident occurring earlier or conservation result.
Discussed this with a player - I really love this, while they were apprehensive of making it randomised. Was thinking of ways that players could "skip" the roll a few times, and with my personal slot-based inventory system, I thought it could be interesting if players purchase a "supply" of a thing that the dice covers - say, torches - that lasts an adventure, then they can avoid rolling supply checks for it. This way, they're paying precious inventory space for a guarantee, while their other resources are more tumultuous. Would be curious to hear your thoughts!
You could definitely do it that way! Personally, I like to keep the pressure on, and giving them bypasses isn’t something I would personally do. I want them running out of stuff and having to solve those situations! But if you want to provide your players with the option of a bit more certainty I like your approach!
Totally agree on the pressure! This player specifically has incredibly bad luck (we've tracked it, its genuinely so far below average we don't know how it happens) and so I like to find alternate pressure methods :)
I've experimented with usage dice a bit. I'm keen to give your take a go for a bit of added pressure!
Do you ever add a character's modifier to a supply dice? Like, if a ranger who's skilled at hunting rolls when re-supplying in the forest?
I recognise that could guarantee success in the smaller dice but, I kinda like the 'living on the breadline' vibe even a skilled survivalist could end up living as they always have just enough, but seldom stock a surplus as their modifier makes less of a difference the more of a supply they have.
I think you could give someone advantage maybe (roll twice keep highest), although with a character specialised in an appropriate area instead what I might give them is more regular chances for partial resupply, or allow them a partial resupply when normally I’d say no!
It’s a neat system. My brain is too simulationist for it most of the time though. If it’s a short dungeon crawl that’s not too serious I’m good with it. I usually treat supplies in my games in one of two ways. 1) I ask the players if their characters bought supplies. If they say yes, then we’re good. I hand wave it and the game goes on its merry way. 2) Supplies *matter* and they need to be tracked in detail. Resupply is difficult and the world is unforgiving.
The interesting thing about the simulationist angle is that in some senses this is simulating factors that traditional counted supply systems don’t. Things like supplies being damaged through travel wear and tear, environmental factors spoiling rations or rotting torches, that kind of stuff. If you want both then maybe the answer is counting plus having a supply incident table tied to each kind of resource you care about that you take for each time the resource is used. That would be heavy lifting, but could be interesting!
That would probably work! Especially through a narrative approach where the roll happens and then I explain how and why. I usually handle those sorts of things through the actual fiction. Bad weather, blown skill checks, enemy actions.
Oh this is real cool! I first saw a unified supply usage / risk dice in Caverns of Heresy's ROGUELAND. I really ought to revisit it ─ I especially like your resupply rules
The usage die is similar, but it is triggered on a 1-2 rather than a static 50% chance of failure. Plus it only generates a supply incident when it fully decays (e.g. drops from a d4). Here there is an increasing chance at all die levels that a supply problem occurs, so rather than waiting for the full decay you can be getting supply problems on the ‘journey’ to supplies fully depleting. You can also jump back up a die size here, which isn’t something the usage die features.
In games with inventory slot systems (e.g. Mausritter, ShadowDark), it seems that the decision of how many slots are allocated to consumables is rather important. Do you have a rule of thumb for how many slots would be occupied by abstracted supply?
Personally I avoid rolling supplies into slot based inventory, it feels like those should be about interesting gear choices. That said… a rule of a slot per 2 levels of the supply die could work!
Perfect. Baseline at zero,which favors a single PC in solo play, to a ratio (like 1:2) for greater challenge.
Getting the perspective of a rule's designer on how it might interact with related rules is excellent for understanding the intent of the rules.
I don't want to feel panic about how rules are supposed to relate. I'd rather feel the panic of my PC as he recognizes an inventory crisis in the face of adversity.
I’ve used a similar system but a max roll never increased the die. Players could only increase the die via “resupplying” as you put it. I do have one question, is there a random table for the supply incidents? The way you describe them make it seem like there is but I didn’t see one
You can always cook up a random table for supply incidents for sure! In this case I've not included one because a) you can do the whole 'this is what caused it to run out' -> that's what run out approach, which is my current preference or b) it may make sense for you to tailor the table to whatever system/scenario you are running!
This looks very similar to how Forbidden Lands is handling resources. However in FL you only decrease a resource die, when you roll a 1 or 2. They are also limited from d6 to d12. What made you decide to have always a 50% chance of decreasing the die?
I much prefer there being a more active resource pressure on the players, it makes things more dynamic. So having the 50% chance of decrease means we are experiencing shifts much more often instead of being occasional then slowly getting more regularly. Instead, the die shrinking is increasing the chances of a supply incident occurring earlier or conservation result.
I love the idea. I’ve seen this in a So You Want to Be a Dungeon Master or something like that. Cool idea.
Discussed this with a player - I really love this, while they were apprehensive of making it randomised. Was thinking of ways that players could "skip" the roll a few times, and with my personal slot-based inventory system, I thought it could be interesting if players purchase a "supply" of a thing that the dice covers - say, torches - that lasts an adventure, then they can avoid rolling supply checks for it. This way, they're paying precious inventory space for a guarantee, while their other resources are more tumultuous. Would be curious to hear your thoughts!
You could definitely do it that way! Personally, I like to keep the pressure on, and giving them bypasses isn’t something I would personally do. I want them running out of stuff and having to solve those situations! But if you want to provide your players with the option of a bit more certainty I like your approach!
Totally agree on the pressure! This player specifically has incredibly bad luck (we've tracked it, its genuinely so far below average we don't know how it happens) and so I like to find alternate pressure methods :)
I’m afraid not! But there’s a lot of token based RPGs out there you could raid for ideas
If you want to take the randomisation element out, you could think about a token system!
i like the sound of that! do you have an example you could point me to for inspiration?
I've experimented with usage dice a bit. I'm keen to give your take a go for a bit of added pressure!
Do you ever add a character's modifier to a supply dice? Like, if a ranger who's skilled at hunting rolls when re-supplying in the forest?
I recognise that could guarantee success in the smaller dice but, I kinda like the 'living on the breadline' vibe even a skilled survivalist could end up living as they always have just enough, but seldom stock a surplus as their modifier makes less of a difference the more of a supply they have.
I think you could give someone advantage maybe (roll twice keep highest), although with a character specialised in an appropriate area instead what I might give them is more regular chances for partial resupply, or allow them a partial resupply when normally I’d say no!
Ah ha! Advantage! An elegant solution that takes care of the changing dice size, and still let's players feel skilled in their area. Love it.
It’s a neat system. My brain is too simulationist for it most of the time though. If it’s a short dungeon crawl that’s not too serious I’m good with it. I usually treat supplies in my games in one of two ways. 1) I ask the players if their characters bought supplies. If they say yes, then we’re good. I hand wave it and the game goes on its merry way. 2) Supplies *matter* and they need to be tracked in detail. Resupply is difficult and the world is unforgiving.
The interesting thing about the simulationist angle is that in some senses this is simulating factors that traditional counted supply systems don’t. Things like supplies being damaged through travel wear and tear, environmental factors spoiling rations or rotting torches, that kind of stuff. If you want both then maybe the answer is counting plus having a supply incident table tied to each kind of resource you care about that you take for each time the resource is used. That would be heavy lifting, but could be interesting!
That would probably work! Especially through a narrative approach where the roll happens and then I explain how and why. I usually handle those sorts of things through the actual fiction. Bad weather, blown skill checks, enemy actions.
I love this idea! I may steal it. 😊😊
Oh this is real cool! I first saw a unified supply usage / risk dice in Caverns of Heresy's ROGUELAND. I really ought to revisit it ─ I especially like your resupply rules
Thanks! I think I first came across usage dice in forbidden lands or black hack, but I’ve ended up with a modified take haha
Isn't this just the Usage Die mechanic renamed?
The usage die is similar, but it is triggered on a 1-2 rather than a static 50% chance of failure. Plus it only generates a supply incident when it fully decays (e.g. drops from a d4). Here there is an increasing chance at all die levels that a supply problem occurs, so rather than waiting for the full decay you can be getting supply problems on the ‘journey’ to supplies fully depleting. You can also jump back up a die size here, which isn’t something the usage die features.